Super hiker Andrew Skurka:
Least favorite gear piece.
Waterproof/breathable fabrics are not very waterproof, at least in real-world conditions. And they’re not very breathable, either. Unfortunately, the alternatives aren’t any better: Waterproof/non-breathable fabrics cause excessive sweating; a wind-shell with more clothing is not as warm; and ponchos and umbrellas are not good in wind or when bushwhacking.
on Gear Junkie
I’m shopping for a new “Gortex” shell.
Seems to me any of the light weight $100 shells are equally good. Equally water resistant.
Disabuse me in the comments if I’m wrong.
besthike.com 
Excellent interview with Andrew, who provides the absolute best information, for free, as usual.
WP/B Shell: Tough call; they all somewhat suck. My thoughts:
* You won’t get WP/B for $100. More like “water resistant”. If it rains you’ll get wet.
* With the expiration of the Gore-Tex patent, there a a dozen fabrics attempting WP/B. I don’t know which one works best; if Backpacker Mag or someone has tested, pls post the link.
* Must have hood, and as few pockets and straps as possible, which add weight/cost/bother.
What I do:
* I’m a weather wimp. I want to have fun. I avoid bad weather whenever possible. The is the cheapest and lightest method.
* In truly wet climates, forget WP/B; wear plastic or vinyl, with polypro underneath, and expect to be soggy but warm. On the Milford Track that’s what all the locals do.
* If you’re not using poles, umbrella’s rock! You like like a total dork, which is good retro-fashion. I used the GoLite Dome on the Inca Trail; first day every avoids being seen with you, after that everyone wants to crowd underneath. Like Andy said, they don’t work with bushwhacking or wind.
My wettest hike was on the Nootka Trail in B.C.
… 3 days non-stop downpour.
We had 10 hikers trying different systems to keep dry. Best I found was to wear fleece, soaked. I was warm and comfortable.
Of course the temperature was quite temperate. That wouldn’t have worked in cold weather.
For $100, the Northface Venture Jacket seems to be quite good. I’ve not put it through Skurka-like abuse, but my girlfriend had it for a 7 day hiking trip through Banff and Mt Assiniboine parks last fall. It down-poured rain for 3 days straight. I had my Marmot Precip and was soaked to the bone every day. She was completely dry at the end of each day. It was enough for me to trash the Precip for the Venture. Took it to Bolivia and used it while mountain biking down the “world’s most dangerous road” while raining. I stayed dry the entire time.
I like the Marmot shell. It fights off the wind and keeps me dry. It is light and takes up little space. For me, it is my most important piece of clothing, especially in drastic conditions.
I’m actually using L.L. Bean’s Trail Model Jacket. My wife and I each got one for 25 bucks in an end of season sale. I have not used it in torrential storms, but I have been in a lot of rain with it (like my walk to work today). It keeps me dry and it does NOT block the wind. Initially I was disappointed with this, but then I realized it tends to breathe better than any other rain jacket I’ve used. I wouldn’t call it breathable, but the air moves around a bit.
I have a 2 layer gore-tex jacket which is breathable until it gets completely saturated, which isn’t long in torrential rain or drizzle. That said, to me it still feels more comfortable than wearing a non-breathable jacket. Also, it does not have a hood and rain water drips down my neck, so I definitely agree with Buzz that a hood is vital.
Does anyone have any comments on whether you should or shouldn’t wear a windproof fleece underneath a breathable waterproof? Manufacturers claim windproof fleece fabric is breathable enough to be worn underneath breathable waterproofs, but the comments on this post about hiking gear choice suggest otherwise.
Thanks for the input. … still shopping. 🙂
Dear Daniel
As would suggest not to wear any windproof fleece under your shell outer. chances are the fleece will have a membane in it and this will only make you warmer and produce more sweat. As there is no breathability in wet and cold (Basic Physics) what you experience is condensation build up on the inside of your jacket. Most claims of waterproofness by manufacturers are correct but they all ignore the physical fact that their products will not work in the real conditions and breathaility is a myth. Wear a good micofleece underneath your shell to reduce bulk and keep in some warmth. It may even help to mop up some of that awfull wet and soggy moisture. If you are serious about the outdoors and you are an all weather hiker then check out SDP from the scottish brand Keela. It claims to manage inner condensation and keep you dry. Used by many Mountain rescue Teams in UK, it seems to be well thought of.
Gore-tex is unique in the fabric industry in that it is waterproof and breathable. The gore-tex membrane is laminated to the fabric the garment is made with; in the case of the 2-layer (PacLite) or a 3-layer (ProShell), the membrane is laminated together with either 1 other layer or 2 other layers. The membrane is what is going to keep you dry, the fabric the membrane is laminated to may “wet out”, however this will not effect the membranes ability to keep you dry. Gore-Tex is also windproof, so wearing a windproof with a Gore-Tex shell isn’t necessary. I have both a Pro-shell and a PacLite jacket and I would recommend both. The Pro-shell fabric is bomb proof and I have tested in wet, wet environments. In one ski tour around Crater Lake we received 3inches of rain in 12 hrs, my shell kept me dry and breathed well the whole time. Gore-Tex also has a test that I have done, where you have two gloves, one made out of plastic and one out of the Gore-Tex membrane. You put the two on your hands and then move your hands in the gloves. It was crazy to see the difference in the breath-ability. The Gore-Tex membrane kept my hand dry from within and the plastic was like a sauna. I would recommend Gore-tex, even if it is a bit more expensive, you are investing in a product that will keep you dry for lots of adventures to come.
As a disclaimer to my previous post: I have been able to test a couple of products for Gore through the Mountain Tech program, however the Pro-Shell Jacket mentioned in the post was not one of the products I was given. I wouldn’t agree to test gear for a company who’s products I didn’t enjoy and already use. However, I want you to be aware of my potential bias.
Thanks for that, Elisa.
Rick,
I’ve tried a bunch of different jackets trying to look for the best combination of waterproof and breathable. I don’t care for GoreTex PacLite material, as it doesn’t seem to breathe that well. GoreTex XCR breathes a lot better, but is heavier and more expensive.
I have an earlier version of the North Face Venture and while it will wet out in driving rain, it’s generally quite good for short-duration or light rain. I usually bring it as a shell when I don’t expect precipitation, or when I’m doing more climbing, as it breathes decently.
I bought a GoLite “Reach” shell on closeout a couple of years ago and it’s quite good for backpacking. Nicely weatherproof, but I don’t expect it to hold up for more than two or three seasons of moderate-to-heavy use. It’s helped by a large back vent and is good for hiking along flatter terrain at moderate exertion.
Hope that helps. A number of companies, Gore included, are reputedly looking at releasing new fabrics this year. At some point I’d like to try eVent…